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或者可以这样说:贝多芬的9部交响曲没有一部达到勃拉姆斯交响曲的高度,同时,勃拉姆斯的4部交响曲没有一部达到贝多芬交响曲的高度。明白否?

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  • 枫下拾英 / 乐韵书香 / 为什么勃拉姆斯这么流行?
    最近乐晕里聊勃拉姆斯的话题很多,昨天去朗朗的大师课,4个孩子里2个弹勃拉姆斯,那俩曲子,唉,可能我因为不懂钢琴技术吧,比它好听的多了去了。我印象里,老勃也就是个甲B前三名,能不能升级都不一定
    • 看到这一句了:“老勃也就是个甲B前三名,能不能升级都不一定。。” 我。。。无言,无言哪~~~~~
      • 马大帅, 任重道远啊,,,
        • 老哥所言极是,...简直就是mission impossible!
    • 看到这一句了:“老勃也就是个甲B前三名,能不能升级都不一定。。” 我。。。无言,无言哪~~~~~ -maer(马儿); 15:14 (#3458274@0)
    • 先说说甲A都有谁?
      • here
        • 完蛋了~~~甲A一溜看下去没个认识的!孤陋啊孤陋。。。
          • 完蛋了~~~甲A一溜看下去没个认识的!孤陋啊孤陋。。。 -maer(马儿); 16:13 (#3458483@0)
        • :)))) 原来甲B才是最高水平D!
          • 一语种地!!!不佩服不行。
          • 甲B中最了得的尤其要数3B!
    • 关于伯拉姆斯我以前曾转帖过好几篇文章, 但没人有反应, 再ZT一段送给伯迷们: <小资的伯拉姆斯>
      Beethoven was the yardstick against which Brahms was constantly measured. For Louis K&ouml;hler in 1880, Brahms would never rise above epigonal status; without spiritual qualities he could be ‘no kind of Beethoven’. In 1918 Paul Bekker advanced one of the main theories of Brahms reception, which had already been adumbrated as early as 1879 by Wagner: Brahms was essentially a composer of chamber music. For Bekker, Brahms's was a small-scale, bourgeois mentality, incapable of the ‘society-forming’ (gesellschaftsbildend) impulse that led Beethoven to write the Ninth Symphony. Brahms's symphonies were to Bekker no more than ‘monumentalized chamber music’.
      • 要说的话太多了,竟一时语塞。。。千言万语汇集成为一问句:到底音乐是要反映‘society-forming’ impulse 还是人的内心世界,比如爱?
        • 贝多芬两个都达到了, 你还不服?
          • (#3458633@0)
            • 贝多芬的Rasumovksy 四重奏还不够温文尔雅?
          • 或者可以这样说:贝多芬的9部交响曲没有一部达到勃拉姆斯交响曲的高度,同时,勃拉姆斯的4部交响曲没有一部达到贝多芬交响曲的高度。明白否?
            • yes, yes, everone is great.......
      • you can get the answer why Brahm WAS considered as a chamber music composer but still wrote great symphony.
        本文发表在 rolia.net 枫下论坛We often think of Brahms as a composer of symphonies, but in fact, he had passed the age of forty before he completed a single such work. That work had been on the drawing board for some twenty years. The delay was not caused by a lack of industry, but rather by well-justified caution. During Brahms' lifetime, anyone who tried to write a symphony would inevitably be compared with Beethoven, and Brahms wanted to ensure that he was quite ready to face that sort of criticism. Even once he felt up to the challenge of symphonies, he was not prolific in the field. He completed only four symphonies in a ten-year period before turning away from the genre forever.

        The last of his symphonies was begun in the summer of 1884 while the composer was vacationing in the Styrian town of Mürzzuschlag. It was a productive period for Brahms, who had completed his Third Symphony only one year earlier, and several dozen songs in the intervening months. Although Brahms often spent years slaving over the manuscripts of his larger works, this new symphony progressed rather quickly, and was completed during the following summer's holiday. Brahms himself conducted the work's premiere October 25, 1885, in Meiningen, home of one of Germany's finest orchestras. At that time, the work was well received, but its Viennese reception was more mixed. On hearing Brahms and a friend perform a two-piano reduction of the score, the famed critic Eduard Hanslick remarked, "I had the feeling that two enormously clever people were cudgeling one another." Later he softened the blow by saying, 'it is like a dark well; the longer we look into it, the more brightly the stars shine back."

        Like Hanslick, the Viennese people gradually came to appreciate the work, which would ultimately serve as their farewell to the master composer. The Fourth Symphony was included on a concert given May 7, 1897: Brahms' sixty-fourth birthday. The composer was in attendance, by did not conduct, for he was already fatally ill with liver cancer. But he witnessed the magnificent ovation at the concert's conclusion, and managed to emerge from his theatre box long enough to acknowledge the audience's appreciation. Within a month, Brahms had died. His own Fourth Symphony was the last symphony he ever heard.更多精彩文章及讨论,请光临枫下论坛 rolia.net
        • Don't take it literally. THe point Bekker made was that Brahms's symphonies are chamber music-like.
          • if we l look at his 4 symphonies,( no matter their form, style, hamony which Maer most like to HY), i am surprised having such statement. his violin concerto and piano concerto also considered as great symphony music also.
            • all you talk is about form, about structure. Beethoven is beyond this. Beethoven is the Napoleon in music, while Brahms is, well, a bourgeois.
              • essentailly they are the same, Brahm is the Karara schuman in his music instead. it's not a bourgeois, rather, it's the true human emotion which Beethoven's revolution and romance belongs to.
                • 弟所言极是!
                • just few minutes ago Maer talked about how they both reached the same height, now you talk about they are the same. All is great, all is great......
                  • looks like you are runing away again.....
                    • 当兵的遇到你们这些秀才们了, 再不跑就要出人命了. ;)
        • 我们正策划一个“阴谋”。。。到时可能要动用到贤弟。。。先打个伏笔。。。到时不要拒绝!
          • after i installed the firfox, I can read some of chinese but not all of them.(I guess i can read 2 out of 3)
        • BTY the above post is (ZT) also
      • 2B or 3B???? ------------ How Dare You!!! x_x
      • 贝多芬是冲动的,而勃拉姆斯是温文尔雅的。。。他们所达到的高峰's 没有多少可比性!
        • (#3458679@0)
        • 我喜欢温文而雅。。
        • 温文尔雅的的高峰,是莫扎特,不是勃拉姆斯
          勃拉姆斯也就一小山包
          • 莫扎特的温文尔雅是小P孩的,或者是老顽童的;而勃拉姆斯的温文尔雅是 非(小P孩,老顽童)的。。。
            • 大错特错!好好听听莫扎特的单簧管协奏曲、钢琴协奏曲20及以后...
        • 没有冲动还叫什么艺术家, 最多也就是个工匠.
          • 文学上,巴金是温文尔雅的,你不会认为他只是一个“工匠”把?啊~~!?
            • 从来就没喜欢过家, 春, 秋.
        • 伯拉姆斯何尝不是冲动的! 听听他的第二钢鞋, 象冲浪一样, 又冲动又浪漫, 虽然罩在古典的壳子里, 却是无比的激情澎湃. 他的室内乐里也有许多激情爆发的时刻.
          他的音乐色彩就是没有贝多芬那么鲜明, 好象常常笼罩在一种灰蒙蒙的调子里, 如同绘画里的"高级灰" -- 不是灰色, 是一种调和出来的复色, 饱和度降低了, 却温和, 深沉, 含蓄, 特别能表现出那么一种氛围, 或说一种心境.
          • 冲而不动, 或者是心动人不动. :)